A Realistic & Good Report on Ministry In The Church of the Nazarene

Report of the District Superintendent

North Florida District Assembly

May 20, 2011

Dr. Middendorf, our presiding general superintendent; Michael Johnson, representing Trevecca Nazarene University; other special guests; and delegates, members, and friends of this 38^th Assembly of the North Florida District: I am once again honored to stand before you to report for the 11^th time as your district superintendent. Come August of this summer, Nancy and I will have been a part of this district for 20 years, and you really are family to us.

I want to begin by expressing personal gratitude to those who surround me in this assignment, and to whom I am especially indebted…our advisory board, two district secretaries this past year in Joe McNulty and Dave Pullen, our district treasurer Mark Patrick, our auxiliary leaders in Susan Day (NMI), Donna Nichols (SDMI), and Tim Hildreth (NYI), and our team of pastors and spouses. Thank you…your love, support, and encouragement.

Once again, rather than reviewing the year just past for my annual report, I am choosing to share a message with you as my district family, my flock, so to speak. But before doing so, I want to briefly mention some of our statistics. Financially, this past year has been perhaps our most challenging in our 38-year history. The plight of our nation’s overall economy is no secret, but our district had been spared its severity until this past year. In several of our churches, regardless of size, members have lost jobs, or their work or business has been greatly curtailed, or they’ve moved away seeking employment elsewhere, significantly reducing tithes/offerings. As a result, our district churches have had an overall loss of income compared to last year of more than $1 million.

In addition, we have had the added challenge of implementing a new budget system. And tomorrow morning our district treasurer, Mark Patrick, is going to walk us through once again a simple workshop on this new way of doing things, sort of a “Funding the Mission 101.”

In speaking to you this afternoon, I would like to refer to a passage of Scripture found in 2 Peter 3:11-14; 17-18:

                       Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be?

You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness. So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless, and at peace with him. Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen. (NIV)

In this passage, the Apostle Peter reminds all of us of the Day of the Lord. And much like the time in which Peter was writing, we, too, seem to see the ravages of evil all around us. I am not a prophet, but it would appear we are living in the Saturday night

hour of this dispensation. Yet when speaking of His return, Jesus said no one knows that day…not even the angels in heaven…except for His heavenly Father.

Though we may be living in the last days, the best way to keep prepared is to be involved with all of our energies and efforts in the extension of His Kingdom in our world. He may or may not come in my lifetime, but whether I’m caught up in the rapture or His coming is after my death, I want to be ready.

When it comes to God’s Kingdom, I’m both glad and thankful to be a part of the Church of the Nazarene. At one time who would have thought we would ever be a denomination in excess of 2 million members worldwide, as we are today? And yet in spite of that growth, some of you know I’ve expressed some sincere concerns about our church…

recent trends and directions…as have others.

I don’t want to merely voice caution, or to sound critical, for practically all of my life has been invested in and given to the people called Nazarenes. They are the ones who found my parents in Central California and were responsible for helping change their lives, spiritually, forever. As a result of that heritage, I, too, found the Living Lord for my life. I was educated in two of our Nazarene schools and have served with gratefulness in Nazarene churches. My closest and dearest friends are Nazarenes.

But some concerns linger. I don’t want to see us drift, or lose our spiritual moorings, which is not uncommon for a church in existence for more than a hundred years. I want us to continue to adhere to our cardinal doctrine.

I want us to preach it with fervent hearts and clear minds. I don’t want us to be lost in the shallowness of liberalism or drawn to the cold, sterile forms of ritualism. I want us to maintain a revival spirit that early on became synonymous with our church. And I want my own children, and your children, to be able to identify that spirit!

As I think about our church, I believe there are at least three great pluses or attributes that have been in our favor. And in this report, I want to share those with you.

I. The Plus of a Great History

First of all, there is the plus of a great history through some wonderful and godly leaders.When my parents were still living but no longer able to care for themselves on their own, my two sisters and I had the daunting task of getting them to move out of their home into an assisted living environment. During that process we discovered something in their basement we never knew existed. My mother had kept hidden away all of the love letters she and dad had exchanged during their courtship. That was when the telephone was used sparingly, and writing was a crafted art. As we came across the letters and took turns reading them aloud, my sisters began weeping at the beauty, innocence, purity, and depth of their love for one another.

But something else stood out. They were both in their twenties and had only been Christians and a part of the Church of the Nazarene a short time, but their letters also expressed a surprising maturity and growth in the things of God. For in that time they had been exposed to several of the early leaders and preachers of our church. One of them was a small statured itinerant evangelist who frequented their home church of Porterville, CA, because his daughter and her husband and their eight children were also a part of that church. His name was Uncle Bud Robinson.

Others who impacted their lives were H. Orton Wiley, the president of Pasadena College where they attended, and who taught systematic theology to all religion majors; Jay Proctor Knott, godly professor of history at the college; and preachers like C. W. Ruth and A. O. Hendricks. As dad told me one day, “All the preaching I heard when I came into the Church of the Nazarene came from powerful preachers of the Word of God, and perfect love seemed to ooze from them.”

Not once did he ever hear someone cast doubt or question the absolute authority of God’s Word. They were unique, learned, and humble servants, minus any arrogance stemming from their own knowledge and educational credentials. And God blessed!

If you read the Historical Statement in the beginning pages of our Church Manual you’ll come across the name of Mary Lee Cagle, who, along with her first husband, R. L. Harris, blazed across the cattle trails of Texas for scriptural holiness. In one county seat after another they paid the price to plant what became the Church of the Nazarene. And when her husband died, Mary Lee continued on her own to conduct revivals, one of which was in the West Texas town of Rotan. In that meeting a cowboy by the name of Henry Cagle was won to the Lord under her preaching, and later on he won her hand in marriage and joined with her in ministry.

As a 10-year-old boy I recall going with my dad to visit the home of Mary Lee and Henry C. Cagle, then retired and up in years, living in the small town of Buffalo Gap, outside of Abilene, TX. There was a sweet and godly spirit about the Cagles, including just being in their home. But there was also a certain awe about Mary Lee. She was tall and stately, with snow white hair and flawless skin, almost angelic looking. And before leaving, she would say to my dad, “Now Brother Jenkins, I want you to have prayer with us,” and the four of us would all kneel around their kitchen table.

But after dad finished praying, Mary Lee would always close in prayer. I want to tell you that even as a young boy, I knew her prayer had lifted all of us heavenward. And before saying goodbye, she would clasp my dad’s hand and say, “Brother Jenkins, if I don’t see you again here, I’ll meet you yonder just inside the Eastern Gate.”

I share this to say that those who went before us to plant our church did so, for the most

part, at great personal cost and sacrifice. They had few people, even less money, and in most places were accompanied by hardship. But in the lives of those early leaders, not only did they profess and preach heart holiness, better yet, they lived it. Their lives were transparent, they stood clear and tall for God, and they had an influence and impact because of a holiness that they themselves demonstrated.

None of our preaching is ever any better than our living.

II. The Plus of a Great Theology

The second plus in our favor is that of a great message contained in our theology…

freedom from sin by the power of the Holy Spirit, known as heart holiness…verified and confirmed by Scriptures. It became the foundation and distinction of who we are and what our early preachers and leaders unashamedly proclaimed.

Yet all too often, upon visiting a church in this assignment, someone will say to me, “Orville, we seldom, if ever, hear a message on holiness.”

If we are Nazarenes, there should be a stamp upon us that we cannot escape. Pastor, as a holiness preacher, you are marked for life. Others may not agree and give emphasis elsewhere. But you and I, as holiness people, have no options, no electives, no discount fares, and make no apologies. When you go this way, you go with a purpose, for you go God’s way, without compromise, reservation, or stipulation.

It calls for cutting some shore lines…settling some spiritual issues once and for all…living to a higher standard…and dying to the world, including the opinion and favor of others. In short, it calls for dying out to self!

But if we ignore or neglect this truth, we not only forfeit the distinctiveness that brought us into existence, we also vacate a wonderful experience that God has for each of us in which our hearts are made clean from sin and pure in love.

III. The Plus of an Evangelistic Passion

And then there is the plus of an evangelistic passion, for the Church of the Nazarene was born in revival.

The Methodist Church stands as a tribute today to one man, John Wesley, who had a passion for souls. When the Church of England forbid him to preach, he stood on his father’s tombstone and said the world was his parish. And for the next 40 years he started revival fires, often in out of the way places all across England, resulting in Methodism. During that time Wesley averaged 8,000 miles a year by horseback and 1,000 sermons a year in his zeal for spiritually lost people.

The Wesleyan revival of the 18^th century was a forerunner of the historical religious current which birthed the Church of the Nazarene, and was characterized by three components: salvation by faith in Jesus Christ; full surrender to Christ’s lordship leading to heart holiness, or sanctification, also by faith; and then the witness or assurance by the Holy Spirit. In fact, when the Methodist Episcopal Church was formed in America in 1784, its stated purpose was “to reform the Continent, and to spread scriptural Holiness over these Lands.”

Ironically, almost a hundred years after Wesley, a Methodist leader by the name of Phineas F. Bresee left a rather secure position in Southern California in order to pursue taking the gospel to the poor and needy. He did so no longer a young man, but at age 57, with the end result being the establishment of the Church of the Nazarene…not only to the poor, but to the world. For also evolving from Bresee’s sense of obedience was something he never fully realized or observed in his own lifetime…our church’s great missionary enterprise which has produced countless unsung heroes of the faith as well as an endless stream of those all over the world who’ve been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb.

And more often than not in our history, we’ve planted a church or entered a new world area by sheer faith, trust, and confidence that our God would go before us as we obeyed the Great Commission. That has been our evangelistic passion.

But now here we are, a little over 200 years after Wesley and almost a hundred years after Bresee. No organization, including the church, can rest or dwell merely on its strengths, pluses, attributes, or personalities of the past. Yes, we’ve had a great history and been blessed with wonderful, godly leaders. But now we seem to find it easy to identify ourselves with those who are either controversial or have nothing in common with our holiness doctrine…today’s liberals who were yesterday’s evangelicals…sons and daughters of those who once rejected liberalism. For if you reject the orthodox truth of Scripture and the church, whatever you call it will still be liberalism. It’s almost as if 2,000 years have gone by and now someone is telling us they’ve discovered something contrary to Scripture that no one else has ever found.

But more importantly, I want to know who among us is willing to say…“Here we stand! This is what we believe!” It is something to which the modern, liberal, emergent church is allergic toward declaring.

Who is standing in the gap, ready and willing to take the mantel of spiritual leadership in this post-modern, post-Christian era in which we live? Who will be a modern day C. W. Ruth, A. O. Hendricks, Mary Lee Cagle, J. B. Chapman, R. T. Williams, E. O. Chalfant, G. B.Williamson, M. Kimber Moulton, Lawrence Hicks, Edward Lawlor, Paul Martin, or C. William Fisher, to name only a few. To some of you, these names may not be recognizable, but they were all powerful Nazarene preachers who stood absolutely on the authority of God’s Word and from whom perfect love seemed to ooze. And they helped establish the reputation of the Nazarenes having some of the finest preachers to be found anywhere.

Who will replace the legendary names of Anderson, Beals, Browning, Depasquale, Eckel, Esselstyn, Garman, Hynd, Knox, Orjala, Prescott, Schmelzenbach, Sedat, and Carson- Winans among our long list of missionary heroes?

And who will be among the next wave of individuals to replace outstanding lay men and women, including those here on our own district, who have served faithfully and been the heart and soul of our church going all the way back to those that followed and joined with Bresee?

We’ve had the benefit of a great theology found in Scripture and brought to a new awareness and emphasis by Wesley. But who will be among our next brilliant, dedicated, and humble theologians in the mold of an H. Orton Wiley, Paul T. Culbertson, Ralph Earle, Donald Metz, Willard Taylor, Mildred Wynkoop, H. Ray Dunning, or William Greathouse, who not only taught but demonstrated the very essence of holiness?

And when it comes to our schools, I believe our tolerance should be zero for anyone who doubts or questions the creation, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection and deity of Christ, the reliability and authority of Scripture, as well as the reality of heaven and hell, or wants to impose the acceptance of homosexuality? For in reality they are not only a danger, they are an enemy to what we value, believe, and hold to dearly, including the minds and hearts of our students. I only want teaching, influencing, and impacting our young people those willing to stand boldly and unflinchingly for biblical truth, and strongly and unequivocally against sin, because the lives of those students, many of whom will be the future of our church, is far too valuable to risk with anyone less.

And who of us is going to make sure the plus of our evangelistic passion does not wane? Some of our churches will go for more than a year without one new member joining by profession of faith. Today we are graduating growing numbers of business and education majors in our church schools here in the U.S., while students who feel called into the ministry are in decline. Who will help us retain or renew a passion for lost people?

As both laity and clergy representing our various congregations, the Church of the Nazarene is now in our hands. It’s no longer in the hands of those I’ve mentioned who paved the way and have gone before us, for we cannot recall yesterday, or go back there ourselves. Neither is it in the hands of those who will come after us. But it is in our hands…yours and mine…for we are the Church of the Nazarene of this hour. And our future depends largely on people just like us who sit here today and who will be in our churches on Sunday.

Several years ago I came across an old gospel spiritual entitled, “Shine on Me.” It was the melody and words of the chorus that really caught my attention and that I loved immediately. The chorus says simply, “Shine on me, shine on me, let the light from the Lighthouse shine on me.”

The question I pose to us is this: This light from the Lighthouse of God that brought us into existence as a church…shined upon us with godly leadership…called us unto holiness…placed within us a burden for the lost…and eventually drew you and me into the church…will it still be shining brightly after you and I are gone due to the spiritual fervor and legacy we’re leaving for others?

What about your local church? If our district, or the Church of the Nazarene, depended on what is taking place in your church to sustain and continue our existence for the foreseeable future, would the light from the Lighthouse be bright enough to do so?

And I ask myself, is the light shining through my life strong enough to create the same love, loyalty, and appreciation within the lives of my own children that I’ve experienced for the church? And what am I doing where I serve to help insure that our church remains a viable influence for the message of holiness across northern Florida?

After first hearing “Shine on Me” in a mostly black worship service, I have since heard it sung by youth choirs, but with a slight variation that asks the question, “I wonder if the light from the Lighthouse will shine on me?” And as I’ve heard it sung in that manner, it has haunted me, for I hear the next generations of our church…our youth and children and young families…asking that question of us.

I wish I could answer that question in the affirmative without reservation. But I can state that unless we as a church are able to preserve our godly heritage, influence, and spiritual fervor…and unless we are able to retain our theology that is most sensible and practical when it comes to living godly and holy lives…and unless we are able to maintain our evangelistic passion for lost people…the light from the Lighthouse will gradually grow dim, no longer shining brightly enough to guide those who come after us.

In the passage we read from 2^nd Peter, the apostle asks what kind of people ought you to be? Rhetorically he answers that you ought to live holy and godly lives, making every effort to be found spotless, blameless, and at peace with the Lord (3:11; 14). But he also issues a warning when he says to be on your guard…don’t get carried away and fooled by what is in error (3:17). In other words, don’t settle for what is shallow or just not true.
And, he is speaking to you and me, in whose hands is now our church.
I close with a “homework assignment” in three parts. The first two are specifically for you as pastors, for Scripture says, “And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?” (Romans 10:14). Pastors, you are the spiritual leaders of our churches, and you are to teach and preach the truth of what we believe from the authority of God’s Word.
• Part One. Two years ago I asked that you preach at least one sermon a month on heart holiness. This year I’d like to see you increase that emphasis. If you don’t already have a copy, obtain the following books an immerse yourself in them for study and sermon preparation, and to feed your own soul: Exploring Christian Holiness, Vol. 1-3 (BHP); Biblical Resources for Holiness Preaching, Dunning/Wiseman (BHP); Studies in Biblical Holiness, Metz (BHP); Grace, Faith, & Holiness, Dunning (BHP).
• Part Two. Read through E. M. Bounds’ book, The Preacher and Prayer. It will change your life!

• Part Three. And as congregations, may I challenge you to spend intentional and specific times in prayer for the Church of the Nazarene? Pray for boldness, courage, steadfastness, and spiritual power against the forces of darkness and evil that come against us. Pray for every phase of our church, including our leadership, our missionary enterprise, our publishing and curriculum arm, our Global Ministry Center personnel, and for Spirit-filled pastors and lay leaders in our local churches. For nothing of real significance ever happens in the church if it doesn’t take place there. Pray earnestly for your own congregation, not just for the sick or the absent. But ask God, point blank, to help you engage, befriend, and win to Christ no less than at least one new person this year!

                    This assignment is captured in that simple request, “Shine on me, shine on me, let the light from the Lighthouse shine on me.”

Respectfully submitted,
Orville Jenkins, Jr.

Sacraments, Covenants with Biblical Sense

The sacraments of the Christian faith as very special and not to be taken or experienced in any trivial manner.

The sacraments are the ‘Sacred” acts or a rituals that changes someone’s social status or renews ones present status in the Christian faith and among the community of believers.

So when it comes to the gospel of Jesus Christ we are to fulfill or continue in the Covenant of God the Father with those adherents of the faith of Abraham fulfilled in and through the grace of Jesus Christ. 

1. Baby Dedication: This ritual has a historical association with offering a new born life to being raised in a godly community by both the parents and the larger body of the cooperate family. 

2. Baptism: This sacred ritual is to be a one time physical expression through water of a changed heart with the outward symbol for witnesses to observe the public confession of a new life that was born again through repentance and forgiveness.

3. Marriage: is the sacrament that is also intended to be entered into once, unless it is interrupted by the death of one of the covenant partners therefore releasing the other to marry again. Marriage is an optional covenant to enter and not required for all. It has spiritual significance of being lived out in the flesh between two people to fulfill a command according to Genesis 1:28. When two people begin to walk as one in unity then much of their lives should become reflective of how two individuals can live and walk in unity as was and is the relationship of Christ and the Father as can we and Christ be. 

4. Communion: This ritual can be experienced as often as one might want to experience it, but its original context was the annual observance of the Passover. Christ gave his last annual Passover a new meaning and noted that as often as they observed that Old Testament Holy Day they were to remember Him and his sacrifice as a new covenant fulfilling the foreshadowed Old Covenant. Many have taken that observance and have extracted just the new meaning out of the entire Passover celebration and participated in it as much as weekly and as seldom as quarterly or monthly. 

These 4 sacraments are Holy observances of the relationship between Christ and men and community. Three of them should be seen as a rite of passage in social changes in the life of God. Communion is an annual reminder of this special covenant relationship God offers each man who walks by faith with His Son Jesus.

All 4 sacraments point to the Abundant Life we have now in Christ. Those who profess Him as Lord, Savior and King should thoroughly enjoy the Passover every year and as often as they might commune with Him with those two elements that are to jolt our remembrance of the significance of his life, passion, death, resurrection and promised return. Marriage is expression of two people becoming one in heart & unity. Baptism publically displays the death to self and identify our ones life that is to be raised in Christ. Communion is for the overall community as well as the individual & family to remind each other and to renew our faith in Christ as Redeemer, Savior and coming King. Dedication is the formal public act of committing  the next generation into the covenant of God and life of a believer from the youngest of ages.

Holiness unto the Lord Petition

Theistic Evolution Verses Creationism, and Can You Spot a Heretic?

       The title of my blog post covers three subjects that are all intertwined into one recent experience that I had in requesting a conversation with a professing Christian Scientist.

You see Creationism is under attack and many Christians and Pastors alike are buying the lie without any sense of digging into the scriptures. It’s often boils down to sentiments among family, friends, pastors, scientists and colleagues something like the following, “Please don’t argue this point anymore as it really does not matter. How God created is not as important as Who created it. Let’s all just get along and love one another in Jesus and be happy.” When it comes to Genesis chapter one I have heard about every possible theory you could imagine accept for one theory: That is, the theory of heresy.

(As you read this please note that someone accused of being a heretic does not imply that that person is intentionally evil, perverse, unethical or immoral.  A heretic is simple someone who teaches wrong doctrine that leads to deception from the truth of God's Word.  Someone who is heretical or becomes heretical is supposed to be warned so they may correct their error and continue in THE WAY. If no repentance or change occurs regardless of how honest, sincere, kind and loving someone may be, they nonetheless are in serious error and need to be barred from continued influence over the body of Christ. Today we have been so infiltrated with heresy that we do not even have the courage to deal with it, or for that matter, the discernment to recognize it. Please name me even one heretical teacher that in recent years was corrected, or removed from authority, in any of our Christian Universities.)

Science and Bible Truth

Pastors and leaders who know and love the sciences, and scientists professing Christ, often cannot (or just simply, will not) call white “white” and black “black,” and this may be the demise of the Church in these Last Days. I will admit that because the majority of believers have accepted the scientific theory of the earth and universe being billions of years old, I just assumed that was right myself and squeezed everything between the first two verses of the bible and then went on my merry way. Within the last few years, however, I was challenged to think about a young earth creation based on the Word and confirming scientific evidence— and it stretched me. The more I read and researched the more God’s Word became alive to me, and the more deception I recognized within those things I had accepted based merely upon the opinion of “Most People.”

Now I realize that it does not matter how many degrees “a man” has before or after his name, or how many “new discoveries” are found and written up by men around the world, who say things that contradict the Bible. What really matters is what God’s Word says. Even that became a study issue for me about the Bible “autographs.” When it all boils down to it we must be sensitive to the Holy Spirit in our hearts and not get so cerebral that we cannot see the forest for the trees when it comes to eternal truth and God’s word. After all, the supernatural is first and above the natural world and universe.

Deception in the Church

Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, Don't let anyone deceive you in any way. As believers I think we can think that we will not be deceived; but I want to remind you that in the Garden of Eden the very first perfect sinless humans were deceived. And if they could be deceived — two people who walked with God without sin — then anyone who professes Christ can be deceived as well. Is that not true? If you answer “NO” to that question (that you cannot be deceived) then I guess you will need to change some scriptures around including the one above and many others.

We need to be careful in these last days. Just because someone says they are a “Christian” (including Pastors) does not mean that they are. And even if they are genuine Christians, they could still be in a deceived state themselves and leading others in the same destructive path without being aware of such:

Should We Be Loyal to Man or Christ?

I am concerned that our “loyalty to years of friendship” may run deeper than the “truth of the gospel” in our veins.  I believe many leaders may really being compromising God’s Truth for the sake of “keeping the peace” with an old friend or colleague. But Paul commanded leaders NOT to act that way at all: After all who wants to confront a life long friend or colleague about error? 

Those [elders] who are sinning rebuke in the presence of all, that the rest also may fear. I charge you before God and the Lord Jesus Christ and the elect angels that you observe these things without prejudice, doing nothing with partiality. Do not lay hands on anyone hastily, nor share in other people’s sins; keep yourself pure….

Some men’s sins are clearly evident, preceding them to judgment, but those of some men follow later. Likewise, the good works of some are clearly evident, and those that are otherwise cannot be hidden. (An excerpt from 1 Timothy chapter 5:20-25, NKJV)

So let me draw my post here to the point at hand: It is interesting to me that a scientist (especially professing Christian Scientist) will not even talk with a creationist pastor. Let me explain what happened to me over the last year…

Standing Up For Truth

I came under great attack recently by liberals within the church world. I proposed that Professor Giberson who taught me in the late 80’s, and who had since digressed into a full-fledged evolutionist, be removed from his role in a Christian College. Professor Giberson still teaches the same classes at the same College that I attended, and now has written several books and clearly deconstructs the Bible in order to fit it into the flawed and ludicrous evolutionary theory. In 2009 I wrote to one of our denominations general superintendents about my concerns, and in essence, asked for an investigation of the issue.

Please note that I assume Karl is a great guy. He certainly was when I was a student, and I have actually read great comments about his influence on other people’s lives within the last few years. But with all those great comments and accolades he is still writing and advocating heresy (false teachings).

Now back to the string of events: Three months later I received a 3-page letter back that, in summary, said, “There is room for diversity, and he is a wonderful Christian man making a difference in the scientific community. There is room for his different belief system of theistic evolutionism within the church.” The author of that letter said that he did not see harm in that professor’s books and teachings — but he also did explicitly state that he disagreed with the professor. That last comment troubles me almost as much the reality that he refused to address a foundational doctrinal issue with seriousness and integrity.

After that response from our highest authority in the church, I wrote a one-page letter to Professor Giberson directly, inquiring about his beliefs on Adam and Eve. I received a brief personal reply that in essence said, “I do not have time for personal correspondence and please see my blog and website for the answers you seek.”

Interestingly, about 3 months later, Dr. Albert Mohler rebuked Professor Giberson publicly on the Internet within a blog post (because of his previous public comments about Dr. Mohler). It was at that point I emailed Dr. Mohler and thanked him for saying what needed to be said about a heretic that my own denomination refused to deal with.

An Unexpected Reaction

In August of this same year, my college alumni organization offered pastors the opportunity to take a book study with professors over the phone (limited to the first 15 pastors). I signed up for a book study on “Coming to Peace with Science.” This is yet another theistic evolution embracing book written by a professor Darrell Falk who teaches at another Christian University. The college sent me the book and the course was to start in September. A week before the first review was to be held on the phone, I received a call from the Chaplain of the college asking me to withdraw from taking the course. The class was not full and even now the class is not full. He gave me a reason that was unreasonable; but nonetheless I withdrew on his insistence. Why was I asked to withdraw? You can make your own conclusions, but in my opinion these science professors knew I was a solid creationist and could not or did not want to handle the heat of someone who is as passionate about creationism as they are about evolution. They do not have either a biblical or truly scientific leg to stand on — and they know it.

So since I was asked to withdraw from the book study I decided to read the book anyway. I then formed my opinions about the text, and was hoping to share them with several scientists and creationists who professed Christ.

However, while reading the book I had also noticed in it a reference to another theistic evolutionary scientist who was quoted therein, and subsequently did my research and found more information about him, including his email address. So the idea came to me that I could start a live call-in recorded podcast for both creationists and evolutionists, to discuss the issue at hand. So I set the date. I then emailed this scientist—and another who professes a Creationist view—asking these two professing Christians with opposing scientific theories about their willingness to participate in my podcast project. The Theistic Evolutionist declined and the Creationist scientist told me to call him anytime.

Though I did receive a few replies from the evolutionist, he in essence refused to participate in the podcast recording. Why? If he is an academic who truly believes that his views are based upon sound theory and verifiable evidence, shouldn’t he be willing (and prepared) to defend those views within a friendly podcast?

A Remarkable Conclusion

In the light of the things I am about to share with you, I am now beginning to think that maybe evolutionists are not just evolutionists after all. Maybe they are those who have become heretics who have fallen from scriptural Christianity and are now making inroads into the true body of Christ. In the process they as unchecked teachers are deceiving believers and destroying their faith in God’s inerrant Word.

So to give you some idea how I formed such a conclusion through my research and experiences, you will find further below my original emails to this scientist, and his replies. I did remove his name and replaced it with Mr. Mystery for courtesy sake.

After that text, I have another for you to examine…

Once this scientist declined me I sent the string of emails to a minister friend that I highly respect who is a great master of the Word of God and discerner of apostasy and heretics. I wanted his unbiased opinion of Mr. Mystery and why he thought the man declined me. I think you may find my friend’s response interesting.

But before you read my friend’s reflections please make up your own mind about Mr. Mystery’s response to me as you read his original email. See if the Lord reveals to you how crafty Mr. Mystery’s deception is, and which of his points that you agree with and do not agree with.

Then you can read the same e-mail the second time below that, with my friend’s comments inserted within the text. Once you then re-read that letter in the light of my friend’s remarks, see if you agree with his rebuttal. Then post why or why not as a comment to this post; but please base your response on scripture as much as possible.

Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 10:10:23 -0500

From: Peter Migner

To: Mr. Mystery

Subject: re: invite to discuss age of earth for podcast


Dr. Mystery,

I am reading the book "Coming to Peace with Science" by Darrel Falk. In his books he mentioned _________ that are over 10,000 years old as one piece of many for proof of old earth age. So as I did my research and it lead to this information from you. In your paper I see that you are a professing Christian who advocates an old earth. I was also able to find another gentleman giving an interesting perspective on the ______ that refutes the reliability of leaning on each ____ to represent each year who trusts in God for a young earth. I still have not drawn my conclusion yet on that issue, but there seems to be perspective on both sides on multiple fronts on age of earth from multiple professing Christian Scientist.

   As a pastor who believes in a young earth view I am by no means a scientist, but am willing to read and listen to the old age views by professing Christians in the theistic controversial issues of the day. My greatest concern is in the eventual deconstruction of all scriptures based on the old age view and making the bible fit into science.

I see the potential it has in breaking down a lot of solid doctrine and that greatly troubles me. To the best of my knowledge there are only a handful of accredited Universities left in North American that even teach and represent a young earth view based on scripture and scientific evidence. Since Christian Scientist represent both old age and YEC views it would seem only reasonable that all Christian Colleges and Universities should at least represent both theories well and with equal passion, thus my concern and passion as clergy.

      In October I am planning on starting a phone / web podcast a few times a month for a few months on this issue based on the book noted above and would like to have people from both sides of the issue call in and share with me for the recorded podcast. The podcast will then be available on ITunes so that other people can listen to both sides. Instead of it being hosted by a scientist in the university setting it will be hosted by clergymen (me) from the field of ministry. If you are open to such in the future please give me a call sometime. I would love to hear your testimony of how you came to know Christ and as well share mine with you.

 As I read about you I see that you have been working with NASA. I had the wonderful privilege many years ago to meet and visit with former Astronaut James Irwin of Apollo 15 to the moon. He has since passed away. I recall well looking at his moon rocks in his office in Co Springs in the early 80's and listening to his passion about the bible and creation. He shared with me his supernatural experience of grace on the moon and his return to Christ as Savior while looking at the earth. It was a moving story for sure.

God Bless

Peter Migner, Pastor

From: Mr. Mystery

To: Peter Migner

Sent: Saturday, October 2, 2010

Subject: RE: invite to discuss age of earth for podcast

Dear Pastor Migner,

I have not yet read the book "Coming to Peace with Science", but it sounds like an interesting one.

You mention the slippery slope argument--that if one accepts the idea of an old Earth, one should consider giving in on other doctrinal issues. The problem with this idea is that essentially all Christians of this generation are well down the slippery slope and just don't realize it. The Bible describes a "firmament" in which stars and other heavenly bodies are fixed. There are also Bible verses that describe the Earth as "firmly fixed", certainly implying something other than rotation and orbital motion. Also mentioned are the "ends of the Earth" and other phrases implying a flat Earth. People today can shrug these terms off as figurative, but that was certainly not the case only a few hundred years ago. That is the reason that Galileo was put on trial.

So if one is really concerned for the deconstruction of scriptures, one ought to stick with the position of the church prior to the scientific revolution: The Earth is a firmly fixed flat surface surround above us by the firmament. Of course that seems foolish today, but only because the public has completely accepted what was once heretical. We are now convinced that God was not trying to teach us in the Bible that the Earth is flat or that the geocentric theory of the solar system was correct.

I have a strong respect for those who are zealous for the orthodoxy of scriptures. However, I think we need to learn from the Pharisees. They were also very zealous for the orthodoxy of scriptures, but so much so that they could not see God's plan. My conclusion is that we need to let God be God and to remember our place, far beneath Him in our knowledge. Like the Pharisees, we will not honor God by fighting blindly for orthodoxy, but rather, we will honor God by being in awe of Him, by respecting scriptures, by hesitating to deviate from traditional interpretations but also being potentially open to them if changes to our previous interpretation are clearly needed. So I remain relatively conservative, but I clearly believe in an old Earth.

To respond to your suggestion that Christian colleges teach both young and old Earth positions: this is the very big goal of the young Earth organizations. This idea was voiced in a recent issue of World magazine. In my own experience in college (a Christian college) I learned about young Earth organizations, but not in a positive way at all. A prominent young Earth organization came to our college and gave a presentation to the science faculty. The faculty had severe doubts about many of their "evidences". The tactic of the YEC organization was to use this occasion to ask how many of the faculty believed x, y, and z doctrines (i.e., literal six-day creation, age of the Earth, and other doctrines). The YEC organization had a person or persons at the back of the room who were watching which faculty members raised their hands or didn't raise their hands in response to these questions. The organization took down the names of some of these faculty members. There was later contact by this YEC organization with the board of trustees. This kind of tactic really angered the science faculty. They thought the YEC meeting was about presenting ideas, not a means toward removal of certain faculty members. The faculty certainly did not appreciate this coming from a Christian organization. I don't believe that YEC organization was ever invited on campus again, and their ideas are not being taught in that college.

I know some of the young Earth organization leaders personally, and I have heard some of these leaders admit that the scientific evidence is stacked in favor of an old Earth, but their view of scripture is completely preventing them from accepting the weight of evidence. I know that is not the picture these leaders present to the Christian public, and this misrepresentation upsets me. However, in the end that is between them and God.

We need to recognize that these issues (method and age of creation) are not at the core of our faith. We agree that God created, that He acted in history and is sovereign, that Jesus atoned for us, and that the Bible is inspired and is useful for all purposes given in II Timothy 3:16-17. These, and our love for God and for one another, are top priority.

God bless,

-- Mr. Mystery

Now here are my friend’s rebuttal comments in blue, inserted within the original text of Mr. Mystery’s reply to me:

From: "Mr Mystery

To: Peter Migner

Sent: Saturday, October 2, 2010 6:43:43 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern

Subject: RE: invite to discuss age of earth for podcast

Dear Pastor Migner,

I have not yet read the book "Coming to Peace with Science", but it sounds like an interesting one.

You mention the slippery slope argument--that if one accepts the idea of an old Earth, one should consider giving in on other doctrinal issues. The problem with this idea is that essentially all Christians of this generation are well down the slippery slope and just don't realize it. The Bible describes a "firmament" in which stars and other heavenly bodies are fixed. [Dr. Mystery apparently does not know the meaning of the Hebrew words here, nor the work of those associated with the Creation Evidence Museum in Glenrose, Texas at CreationEvidence.org. If he did, he would not be so uninformed with his interpretation of the “firmament.” These scientists at CE have created a Creation model that includes a “crystalline canopy” as a firmament, complete with scientific data to support their thesis. Even NASA has had Dr. Baugh lecture to them on the things they discovered with their biosphere experiments, based upon that mode.] There are also Bible verses that describe the Earth as "firmly fixed", certainly implying something other than rotation and orbital motion. [This is also a very ignorant statement, as the Bible clearly says that, “He stretches out the north over empty space; He hangs the earth on nothing” (Job 26:7). In other words, the only thing “fixed” in the Bible account is the laws upon which the earth operates, but the earth itself hangs “on nothing” i.e. is NOT supported on an object, but suspended in its orbit by gravity around the sun. ] Also mentioned are the "ends of the Earth" and other phrases implying a flat Earth. [Again, he is reading his own understanding of the “implications” of such statements, as there are MANY passages of Scripture that indicate that the earth is ROUND: e.g. “When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth” (Proverbs 8:27). Compasses are round, and the “face” of the depth would be the horizon. Also, Isaiah 40:22 says, “He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth...”. Christopher Columbus said within his autobiography that these passages of Scripture convinced him that the earth was round, and upon these, he held firm during the many trials in which his terrified crew sometimes plotted mutiny for fear he would get them all killed. So the good doctor is quite ignorant of the Bible (and history) on these topics, and if he spent any real time looking at the MASSIVE amount of good science being reported in Creationist circles, he would know that.] People today can shrug these terms off as figurative, but that was certainly not the case only a few hundred years ago. That is the reason that Galileo was put on trial. [Galileo was put on trial by the Roman Catholic Church, NOT the Christian Church. The RC’s banned the Bible from the public, and were essentially themselves heretics in the light of Scripture. To blame Christians for Galileo's situation—which was not that bad anyway, as he lived under “house arrest” in a beautiful villa—is absurd, and a red herring of an argument. It is a logical failure known as an “ad hoc argument”: His effort to substantiate his point is nothing more than a desperate appeal to history, but one which actually does not support the point being made.

So if one is really concerned for the deconstruction of scriptures, one ought to stick with the position of the church prior to the scientific revolution: The Earth is a firmly fixed flat surface surround above us by the firmament. [That was the RC, not “The Church.” Further, that was also the primary opinion of MOST “scientific thought” for the day, regardless of the RC position on the topics. So again, a moot point with NO substantiation in the light of either Scripture or accurate history.] Of course that seems foolish today, but only because the public has completely accepted what was once heretical. [Again, he forgets the RC considered anything that was contrary to their own heresy as heretical...so he still misses the point terribly.] We are now convinced that God was not trying to teach us in the Bible that the Earth is flat or that the geocentric theory of the solar system was correct. [That is a true statement; but in spite of his thesis and evidence, not based upon such. He clearly is misinformed about both the Bible and supporting scientific evidence for a literal 6-day Creation as described therein.]

I have a strong respect for those who are zealous for the orthodoxy of scriptures. However, I think we need to learn from the Pharisees. They were also very zealous for the orthodoxy of scriptures, but so much so that they could not see God's plan. [The Pharisees were NOT zealous for orthodox interpretation of the Scriptures, as they interpreted the Bible according to the Talmud (which they elevated to “divine” status of authority) and their own whims. That is why Jesus rebuked them, saying, “You make the Word of God of none affect by your traditions” (Mark 7:13). This is an EXTREMELY ignorant statement made by Mr. Mystery. In logic, this is a fallacy called a “straw man augment.” Here is an interesting discussion of this type of fallacy, using a statement of James Dobson, of all people, as an example: http://www.fallacyfiles.org/strawman.html  So Mr. Mystery holds up a “straw man” (i.e. a false example that does not actually exist in reality, but is made up for the sake of argument). He then “tears it apart” with fine-sounding reasoning that would cause ignorant people to think that he is brilliant. The only problem is that his “target” is an illusion, and therefore, his reasoning is empty speculation about nothing that ever existed in the first place. It sounds good, but cannot hold up to either Scripture or history....once again.] My conclusion is that we need to let God be God and to remember our place, far beneath Him in our knowledge. [That, again, is a true statement; but not predicated upon his own logic or false-assertions. Again, it sounds good and even Christian, but is actually a deflection from the real issues he failed to address.] Like the Pharisees, we will not honor God by fighting blindly for orthodoxy, but rather, we will honor God by being in awe of Him, by respecting scriptures, by hesitating to deviate from traditional interpretations but also being potentially open to them if changes to our previous interpretation are clearly needed. [This is another, and rather obvious, logical fallacy called a self-contradiction: He first says in the previous sentence, “[We] need to let God be God and to remember our place, far beneath Him in our knowledge.” He then says in this last sentence, essentially, “But if we, in our own earthly human wisdom, decide that the Bible is incorrect on a topic, then we should change our interpretation to fit OUR understanding of such things.” This is his way of saying, “I like to sound as if I honor God and His Word, but in reality, my belief system is founded upon humanism and I just don’t want you to know that.”] So I remain relatively conservative, but I clearly believe in an old Earth. [i.e. “I profess to be a Bible-believing Christian, but in reality, I am not; and I don’t want to look at any evidence that supports such a literal Creation thesis.”]

To respond to your suggestion that Christian colleges teach both young and old Earth positions: this is the very big goal of the young Earth organizations. This idea was voiced in a recent issue of World magazine. In my own experience in college (a Christian college) I learned about young Earth organizations, but not in a positive way at all. A prominent young Earth organization came to our college and gave a presentation to the science faculty. The faculty had severe doubts about many of their "evidences". The tactic of the YEC organization was to use this occasion to ask how many of the faculty believed x, y, and z doctrines (i.e., literal six-day creation, age of the Earth, and other doctrines). The YEC organization had a person or persons at the back of the room who were watching which faculty members raised their hands or didn't raise their hands in response to these questions. The organization took down the names of some of these faculty members. There was later contact by this YEC organization with the board of trustees. This kind of tactic really angered the science faculty. They thought the YEC meeting was about presenting ideas, not a means toward removal of certain faculty members. The faculty certainly did not appreciate this coming from a Christian organization. I don't believe that YEC organization was ever invited on campus again, and their ideas are not being taught in that college. [Despite his experience with ONE SET of unethical YE proponents (if we can fully believe his one-sided account), that is NOT a sufficient foundation upon which he has a right to reject ANY and ALL YE proponents and their Bible-based scientific theories. Again, logically, this is a fallacy known as an “ad hoc” argument; and certainly does not raise my estimation of this man’s educational credentials one bit.]I know some of the young Earth organization leaders personally, and I have heard some of these leaders admit that the scientific evidence is stacked in favor of an old Earth, [I would like to see him name even ONE...which he does NOT. So in the light of his demonstrated ignorance of Scriptures, logical fallacies, and unsubstantiated arguments above, I just don’t believe him. There is a HUGE amount of information that supports a YE model of Creation scientifically. One particularly intriguing one is the “radio halos” found in ALL the granite rock of the earth’s crust: http://75.125.60.6/creatio1/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=36

I have read so much scientific evidence that supports a YE elsewhere—and so much garbage in Mr. Mystery’s email reply to you—that I will have to require some substantiation of his assertion that he knows EVEN ONE genuine YE scientist that secretly believes that the evidence supports an OE thesis.] but their view of scripture is completely preventing them from accepting the weight of evidence. [Given what I have read in his email, I would say it is more accurate to say that Mr. Mystery’s disbelieve of Scripture—and ignorance thereof—is blinding him from accepting the weight of evidence for a YE model. He has NOT substantiated his beliefs at all—and has produced ONLY logical fallacies for his reasoning. So I cannot accept him as being anything but intellectually dishonest (based on the evidence at hand) and I DO question whether he is genuinely a born again Christian or not, as he seems to lack reasonable revelation of God’s word also.] I know that is not the picture these leaders present to the Christian public, and this misrepresentation upsets me. [Substantiation...substantiation. He offers none, but a false front of “righteous indignation.”] However, in the end that is between them and God. [And he will find out how true that statement is one day, to his own detriment, unless he repents.

Furthermore, this is a typical “defense” response from heretics, in my experience. They are essentially saying, “Let’s not discuss the real issues, and especially my own position, and just let God sort it all out later.” However, that is NOT biblical. In essence, Mr. Mystery makes a “God is the judge” statement. Though his context implies “...and not me” it is really a distraction from his true intent. By saying, “God is the judge,” he really implies, “So leave me alone and don’t challenge my doctrine.”

Yet, the Bible actually TELLS us (yea, even commands us) to judge doctrine and to “contend for the faith once delivered to the saints” (see Jude). Since heresy is so easily disproved upon closer analysis, the heretics want to throw up a “shield” to prevent that scrutiny. Thus, they take advantage of the common misconception that the Bible admonishes us “not to judge”, when Jesus merely warned not to judge hypocritically; He never forbad it categorically, and in several places, TOLD us to judge; e.g.:

Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. (John 7:24)

Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me remove the speck that is in your eye,’ when you yourself do not see the plank that is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck that is in your brother’s eye. (Luke 6:42; and also Matthew 7:5)

If you review EVERY one of Jesus’ so-called “do not judge” passages (many of which I did not cite herein) He was only admonishing against being a hypocrite. Otherwise, how else can we “judge a tree by its fruit” if we are not to look at the “fruit” of others and judge such things? The logical absurdity of this common misconception about “judging others” when analyzed in the light of Scripture, is astounding.

Thus, in short, a common “defense” used by heretics is the “God is the judge” ploy. Yet, the Bible tells us to challenge heresy and error with God’s Truth, which ALL the apostles demonstrated for us in the NT, and the true prophets of old certainly demonstrated in the OT.]

We need to recognize that these issues (method and age of creation) are not at the core of our faith. [That is a lie (though he might sincerely believe that). John Calvin, Martin Luther, and many others, clearly understood that the question of Creation, the fall of man, and other such topics, are very much CORE issues; the deviation from which was pure heresy, as it undermined the very foundations upon which the Gospel is based.] We agree that God created, that He acted in history and is sovereign, that Jesus atoned for us, and that the Bible is inspired and is useful for all purposes given in II Timothy 3:16-17. [Yet he just spent his entire reply to you denying portions of the Bible’s inspiration....so this is again a logical self-contradiction, and pure folly. If we cannot believe in the Bible’s account of a literal 6-day Creation, how can we trust its literal account of the fall of man and justification through the sacrifice of Jesus? He is theologically a heretic, but either too ignorant to know it or too dishonest to admit it.] These, and our love for God and for one another, are top priority. [Most heretics I encounter also resort to the “love of God” distraction, just like he did here. Thus, I have to conclude he is knowingly a heretic as this one seems to be their favorite “trump card” in their let’s-change-the-subject-away-from-the-real-issues stratagem.]

God bless, [Don’t you just love it when heretics send you their blessing? Peter, my brother...I hope I have substantiated my point already within the notes above: I obviously believe you are dealing with a heretic here. That is why he does NOT want to be recorded for a podcast expressing his views, for fear you might expose the underlying heresies upon which they are founded.

Let me acknowledge here that Mr. Mystery obviously had not expected or intended his email to be so thoroughly scrutinized and dissected. Nevertheless, we can certainly conclude that he is truly expressing his own paradigm on these issues. So his use of logical fallacies, poor theology, and unsubstantiated facts, to support his thesis in a reply to you, betrays the unsustainable nature of the position that he has chosen to embrace against the Scriptures (and against the copious empirical evidence that supports those Scriptures).

Remember also: Augustine hit the nail on the head when he wrote, “Pride is the mother of all heresies.” This man’s pride is evident throughout his email response above, despite the false humility and many logical fallacies he used to cover that fact up. So unless you are willing to take the “Law to the Proud” and wear him out with the truth (like a good “spanking”) then you are likely going to waste your time on him; he can never accept grace (i.e. get delivered from his multiplied errors and, if necessary, even get saved for the first time) with such demonstrated pride in his heart.]

--Mr. Mystery.

Closing Remarks

Let me end this letter with a question or two: What you do believe about creation? Do you believe what the Word of God says? Do you doubt what the Word of God says because many scientists and theologians have agreed with their theories that question the clear and implied account of the history the creation and mankind? Are you willing to do serious study to determine for yourself what is truth, or will you throw your arms in the air and just say it does not matter and merely trust the theory that has the most adherents? If this generation does not defend the biblical creation account as outlined in the Bible what will happen to the next generation?

Were you taught evolution in school with an equal rebuttal of teaching of creationism? This generation more than any other sways the future for many other generations to come. With professing Christians now embracing evolution by renaming it theistic they are able to deceive the innocent with heresy in the name of God. Evolution is evolution, be it theistic or atheistic. Unless leaders who hold positions of authority in the church take the time to study and have convictions from God and react one way or the other we will have continued controversy among the sheep over this issue.  

However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?" Luke 18:8

Biblical Creationist Pastor Creates Open call in Forum to discuss "Coming to Peace with Science" by Darrel R. Falk

A new book written by  Darrel R. Falk called "Coming to Peace With Science" Bridging the Worlds Between Faith and Biology will be discussed in an open call-in for pastors and layman. This book is currently being discussed with a private small group of pastors and two science professors from the Eastern Nazarene College region. Please listen to this brief podcast below about the background leading up to the concern about creation verses theistic evolution in higher education and in the church. If you would like to receive information to call in and listen to the first discussion on the book please fill out the form below.  This will be a call in discussion about the book & the Bible lead by Rev. Peter Migner. The discussions will be posted as well. Question can be typed in if someone prefers to not call in. The purpose of the style format is to help Christians communicate better than often the written expressions lack in books and correspondence. The attempt of the podcast will be to have Christian leaders from both perspectives call and share based on the Bible being the final authority in conjunction with evidence.

	New Post On Theistic Evolution verses Creationism posting soon!

Is a New Church Denominationalism Emerging? Part 2

When I first became an evangelical Christian back in the early 80's a large majority within evangelical churches believed the Word of God as the inerrant and infallible word of God to be received and believed. Today that is changing and that even among evangelical churches and many Christian Universities. I wonder how many today believe in a literal 6 day creation as the bible declares. Surprisingly more and more evangelicals seem to keep embracing evolution as biblically based and acceptable regardless of what the bible says.

One General Superintendent said the following when I wrote and complained about a professor who is teaching evolution at one of our Christian Universities. “The difficulty we face is that we must make place for a wide range of views regarding these matters within the Church of the Nazarene. We do insist on the authority of Scripture. While we may differ regarding some of the interpretations of creation and human origins, we must not differ in regard to the reliability of Scripture”.

I know one thing for certain this statement does not hold water to defend the faith well, if at all. I say that in all due respect. Granted it is just one small portion of a 3 page letter, but we cannot have such a wide spectrum on such a crucial issue as creation and the first 3 chapters of the bible. When our general leaders don’t want to declare clearly what a denomination believes in a certain area then we open wide the floodgate for multiple views that bring crisis and confusion and we will quickly be headed for trouble.

I ask why we do we have to make place for such a wide range of views regarding the interpretation of creation and human origins? This type of answer I believe is the beginning of more of the same in the post modern culture and it will likely get worse before the return of Christ.

Do you remember when believers actually carried the Word of God with them to church and bible studies? Christians used to actual follow along and let the word speak to them while it was being preached and taught. Folks back then made notes in their bibles and wrote things in the margins. Heaven and hell were real places (still are), people knew how to find passages in the bible and folks actually cared about doctrine and had opinions about what they believed the bible taught. Being born again was essential as well as being spirit filled while awaiting the return of Christ and believing the end of the age was soon.

The difference then was what distinct doctrines one might believe from the inerrant Word of God different from the other believers in other denominations. Doctrine mattered because it determined how you lived your life, raised your family and how you lived and died. Now doctrine almost seems to be the last concern on folk’s minds as we become shallow in the name of tolerance. Since we are a tolerant society of so many harmful and objective things in life, tolerating doctrine that is objectionable can also be tolerated in the name of unity, friendships and personal self satisfying preferences about any given church. The following reply from someone from my Part 1 post I found to be enlightening, transparent and confirming and allowed for reprint for my part 2 post.

“Peter,

You wrote: “It seems that the new denominationalism may very well be defined by who is biblical or not. Since emergent proponents seem to have slithered into churches of all denominations changing not only methodologies but also scripture meaning and theological understanding of the scriptures. It now becomes harder to find continuity through what denominations use to provide in sameness of doctrine, worship and even programs. Finding those who just simply believe the bible as the inerrant and infallible word of God alone seems to be a more important common denominator than what label the church has or the group it is associated with.”

As I thought about your email, I wandered back in my memory (I know, dangerous) to a time when my wife and I were looking for a church after being uprooted from my home church – where my dad was pastor. We were so theologically ignorant that we had a difficult time finding a church, for many of the same reasons you state. However, we did end up in a Christian & Missionary Alliance church.

After moving from that area to the Carolinas, we began our search again. We ended up at a church that could seat 6,600 people. It was non-denominational. After some pastoral changes there, which we were not in favor of, we left and went to another non-denominational church. This one was probably 500 to 1,000 members over multiple services. This church now holds five worship services over the weekend with thousands of members.

Again, we moved away from that area into a suburb of Charlotte. The only “big” churches in the area were Baptist. We went there because we needed a place for our teenage son to connect. What we looked for in a church was also different than what we would look for now. And that is where I believe the difference is found.

What drew us to these non-denominational churches? Programs for kids and teens, great preaching, and exciting worship. What kept us at these non-denominational churches? Nothing! There was no glue that kept us there. Eventually the glamour and excitement wore off. The lack of holiness preaching led to a lifestyle of “sinning in thought, word, and deed” on a daily basis. We were powerless!

For many, Church has become just another entertainment outlet. People don’t come to learn more than they do to socialize, be entertained, to be seen, to make themselves feel good about doing some social justice project, or to have their consciences eased in “thinking” that their kids and teens are well cared for. “Corporate church” is the norm now, and that ideology seems to be killing smaller, holiness-oriented churches. Add the “emergent movement” to this mix, and the local holiness church is impotent to defend itself against the tidal wave of feel-good theology. Denominations are imploding over internal issues. Non-denominational churches are temporarily thriving as people jettison their faithfulness to their denomination of choice. The “common denominators” that held denominations together are now being challenged by the rapid growth of non-denominational churches.

Yet, I remain optimistic. I personally believe it is in these times that we must remain firm to the message of heart-holiness and to preach it all the more. It is, I believe, the pathway through which God builds his church. Why? Because heart-holiness is centered on the love of God that fills us. Programs will come and go, new and faddish tools will excite people for a time, but in the end it is one-on-one relationships built on the love of Christ that will prevail. These relationships will carry the day when all of the glitz and glamour fade.

Relationships are key to weathering the storms that are here and now and the ones yet on the horizon. If the community of faith is not building relationships, then it will cease to exist or at least cease to impact the community in which it resides. We may not now impact thousands of lives every weekend, but the ones which God has given to our care will be best served by our confidence in the message of heart-holiness”.

Today is a different day for sure. People shop for churches like a new car, verses praying about what God wants them to do and where to serve others. When did looking for a church based on what a church believed stop? Since we are a consumer culture, folks look for programs, music, comfortable size congregations, service time options, friends, and a great communicator in a pastor and then maybe doctrine.

Many do not realize it yet, but there is a new agenda (doctrine) moving through all religious circles today including the evangelical church. It is being formed by governments, government controlled educational systems, media, political leaders and social reformers. It's a Social Gospel that uses buzz words like social justice, living justice, emergent, emerging, missional, compassion, green, environmentalism, mystic, ancient faith, paths, relational tithe, prophetic Imagination etc.

Its agenda is to transform and save the world and redeem the earth and its people collectively. Many new words within Evangelical Christianity are popping up through sermons, books and publishing house curriculum. Deconstruction and reconstruction of words and terms are happening all in the name of post modernism and emerging relativism. This is happening on many fronts beyond just religion as well, but especially there as many claim we are on the dawn of a new reformation and the revolution is coming into a new global environment. Truly a one world government agenda will require the cooperation and convergence of many groups around the world including all religious sects to come together in some form of harmony.

Recently I was reviewing a new National Geographic magazine called “Water”. The whole magazine was about how people use water and how much they use, waste and pollute. It mentioned how hard some tribes and people in different lands can’t get water. If you looked at the magazine as a whole it has an agenda. The agenda is propagating the fear of lack based on projections of the world’s population growth. It is written in such a way to cause the reader to see the world and its people and water supplies from a one world perspective to solve problems and its forthcoming programs.


I am not trying to be insensitive to people groups of other nations and lands who have water problems. It’s just that each country, each area, each location needs to work and seek solutions as it can. However, a one world government and its perspective is being painted now to condition a generation in their youth to look at everything as a whole and the best way to get folks to look that way is through all the religions of the world getting on the same page by way of teaching a social agenda for solutions.

Within Christianity this agenda is painted as a “Emergent Church” or “new gospel” or a “Social Gospel” where people are presented to solve the bigger picture as a whole. In the past the emphasis has always been on transforming the individual and now it is about transforming the society or a community as the whole. Jesus and the Gospel writers warned about what would happen in the last days before the return of Christ. They warned there would be false Christ, false teachers and false prophets. They would be ever learning and never attaining the truth. They would slip in among the believers like wolves in sleeps clothing.

So what does this have to do with a new denominationalism? Today it is all about the TRUTH OF THE GOSPEL. Folks will need to ask themselves in these last days, is the church they attend a bible believing and proclaiming church? They will have to discern the spirit of the church and look past programs, music, buildings, locations and personalities and look for bible believing people with the true gospel and beware of this new social gospel.

If church leaders are solid then they will stick to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If they are whitewashed with “another gospel” agenda then you will still find truth here and there, but it is likely polluted with a different agenda as well. The new agenda is all about transforming the culture, the community, the environment and the planet and helping folks along the way get help for their problems. It's a warped kingdom now position that many believe will eventually help usher in the Savior. The great commission has always been and always will be about going and making disciples. Yes we are to do deeds of kindness along the way by visiting the sick, those in jail and giving a cup of cold water in Jesus name. But we do it all with the soul and repentance in mind and not just for the acts of compassion alone as the end result of fulfillment.

Finding a church where the Cross of Christ is lifted up and Jesus is proclaimed and the blood of Christ is pleaded and prayed over folks may soon be a forgotten gospel among a shrinking remnant if the masses of professing Christians do not discern the times with the Word of God.

Many pulpits have become nothing more than a Jesus flavored self help pep talk with scriptures peppered in here and there to flavor there topical messages of the hour. Rarely do we here of people mourning over their sins and confessing unto true repentance. Many of our churches have become centers of entertainment verses a holiness people of worship with a fresh anointing from on high with power. Sermons are becoming more illustrated with the latest skits and movie clips to identify with the culture than introducing the lost culture to the Gospel of Jesus Christ with His timeless relevant truth that still speaks through the power of the Holy Spirit. I believe we must use multimedia as a tool that this present generally relates to, but not so much that we do not rely solely on the power and anointing of the Holy Spirit.

Unfortunately I perceive that a New Denominationalism will not be about which doctrine you believe as much as which Gospel you receive. That may be a new thought to many, but it certainly was not to the early apostles. Paul wrote in Galatians 1:8 “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that, which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed”. Now those are some stern words for us as well and especially the clergy who will answer for what we do with the Word of God in teaching and proclaiming.


Doctrine is important and far from secondary, but the shift that is emerging today is a shift from proclaiming a personal message of hope and holiness to transform lives to a message of cultural redemption and mandates to save the world as a whole. “Another Gospel” is the self help message that conveys all that God wants to do for you.


People need to know the true gospel from "another gospel" or they may be sweep away into the cultural vortex of social reform at the expense of their own souls.


I never dreamed 20 years ago when Jesus said in Luke 18:8 "However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?" how this could be possible. With multimedia with its repetitive emotional impact ability deception seems far easier in the hands of the misguided, deceived and wicked than I ever could have imagined.


What does this imply about the final days before His appearing? If you find yourself looking for a church in the future you should seek God's divine guidance and throw all the marketing mandates out the window. Listen to the voice of God with your bible in one hand while maintaining a careful listening ear to hear the voice of the Holy Spirit. He promised to lead His people into all truth and He who saves is faithful to the end.